Optuma to run on Arm Based Computers ie Apple M1 or Windows Arm64

Optuma Forums Optuma Feature Requests Optuma to run on Arm Based Computers ie Apple M1 or Windows Arm64

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  • #62271
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi guys, now that Mac is moving over to Arm technology for their processors and the fact Windows also has an Arm version of their operating system, is there any planning in the works to develop Optuma to also run on these processors. I know there are a lot of Mac users that would love to get away from the hassle of running Parallels, yes, simply response by a PC, but there is a community that loves what Apple does with their computers, and wouldn’t even consider buying a PC. I know this would be based on demand, but is it something you guys have in the development window down the track?

    There is an article that says going forward Parallels Apple Silicon version is specifically designed for ARM-based operation systems, so it won’t work with x86 version of Windows 10. Follow link here.

    This will be tragic for Mac users that want to upgrade to the new Apple Silicon that is going to provide superior performance as well as battery life on their Laptops. Myself included, I’m really looking forward to upgrading to the new MacBook 16 model coming out this year, but will be pointless if I cannot run Optuma via Parallels, so thought I would ask to get your thoughts.

    Any update on the future of Optuma running o Mac would be greatly appreciated.

    #62281
    Marc
    • Topics: 13
    • Replies: 23
    • Posts: 36

    Hi Guys,

    I totally second that.

    I use my Mac Book pro from 2017 for Optuma even though I have switched to the M1 platform (super powerful, no heat, no fan, huge battery life… no pc offers anything like that).

    CrossOver is a competitor of Parallels and does not require Windows to run Pc apps. I use it with DAS trader and it works like a charm. I have asked them a contact person should you guys want to ask for info. Here it is:
    James B. Ramey
    President
    CodeWeavers, Inc.
    (D) +1 651 523 9302
    (F) +1 651 523 9399
    [email protected]
    Skype:  jamesbramey

    By the way, I was using Parallels v.13 until a month ago. I have been using several versions of Parallels over the years without noticing  any significant change from one version to the other.  When I switched to V.16, I found the gain in speed in Optuma is at least 10 folds+ with screeners). I had almost given up with Optuma and this was my ultimate attempt. I am so pleased I have tried that as I am overwhelmed with the software and possibilities. Small things can make a big difference.

    cheers
    Marc

    #62305
    Mathew
    • Topics: 40
    • Replies: 2,009
    • Posts: 2,049

    Hi Scott,

    A couple of thoughts on this.

    1. This is a decision which is one level below where we work. We program in Pascal using Delphi. It is Delphi’s responsibility to compile our code into machine language (x86 or ARM). If they release an update which supports ARM then we can do it. I do note that in their RoadMap, they do plan to release support in H2 2021 (based on 25 years working with them, I expect it in 2022). When we get it, we would then need to try to compile and deal with all the issues that will come up in over 4 million lines of code. Because there are so many unknowns, and things out of our hands, I can not give a time line on this, but we do see this as being very important.
    RAD2020roadmap05-9724451

    2. One of the things which stopped up releasing a native MAC version was the graphics library that we selected for this 4th generation of Market Analyst/Optuma. At the time (in 2009), OpenGL was the right choice to achieve what we were looking for with shading and thumbnails etc. Unfortunately, it stopped us from being able to easily compile for Windows, Linux & Mac. The other issue we have is that OpenGL is becoming more of an issue as graphics cards are no longer supporting the way that we are using it.

    One of our projects for 2021 is to remove OpenGL and switch to a Graphics library which will be cross-compatible with all platforms.

    3. We have worked with CodeWeavers years ago. The OpenGL issue is the core problem for us and we do not see that anything has changed there. Crossover is using a version of WINE which was first used for running Windows apps on Linux. I’d be surprised if they beat Parallels or VMWare Fusion to ARM support.

    4. That article is referencing ARM windows on the M1. What you need is the standard x86 Windows on the M1. There is no use in Parallels which does not support x86 applications since 99% of Windows applications are x86. The M1 also has the capability of interpreting the expanded instructions of x86 to the reduced instructions of the ARM RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer) processor. This article explains it better https://www.parallels.com/blogs/parallels-desktop-apple-silicon-mac/ As soon as that version of Parallels is available, you’ll be good to go.

    Bottom line is that Parallels & VM Ware have the biggest incentive to get this done the quickest. Make sure you keep up to date with what they are releasing.

    All the best

    Mathew

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #62307
    Mathew
    • Topics: 40
    • Replies: 2,009
    • Posts: 2,049

    Also remember PaperSpace.com as an alternative. You can have Optuma in a browser and allocate as much power as you need to it.
    https://help.optuma.com/kb/faq.php?id=975

    #62323
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Marc,

    Thanks for your reply, I was close to buying the M1, but without being able to use Optuma, made the move pointless, I went from 2013 MacBook Air to 2019 iMac, iMac is awesome with the 5k display, but not portable, so really miss not being able to easy unplug the laptop from external monitor, and use Optuma on the go. Parallels, yes, v16, speed boost is great.

    I’m sure you’re loving the M1, I’m holding out for the 16″ model to get the dual display support. Yes there are work arounds for the M1, just having it native will be nice.

    Thanks for the details on Crossover.

    Fingers crossed Delphi integrate macOS Arm support, that will hopefully allow us to run natively once Optuma recompile their code.

    Cheers Scott

    #62325
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Mathew,

    Thanks very much for your speedy reply, and exciting times ahead. What’s 4 millions lines of code between friends, an absolute nightmare I’m sure, hopefully no major bugs come across, I know from the old code to Mac silicon code Apple had some converter in the middle, that some developers were able recompile very quickly, but I’m sure this isn’t the case for all.

    Hopefully Delphi can keep on their scheduled timeframe, wishful thinking I’m sure, but hey, they might surprise you after 25 years! Hope you transition from OpenGL to Graphic Library is a smooth one, exciting times ahead for you guys I’m sure. Cheers on the article, that was just a quick sample, and yes, let’s hope one of the main players does the x86 version of windows, as from all the uploaded YouTube videos, most are saying M1 does the translation quicker than most Intel run it natively, so fingers crossed on that one in the mean time.

    Also thanks for the feedback on PaperSpace.com, will check that out and see how it goes. As I replied above, I went for MacBook Air to iMac, and really miss just being able to go remote, so PaperSpace might be suitable for these situations, Cheers

    Again, appreciate your detailed reply and great to see Optuma pushing to keep improving our experience.

    Cheers Scott

    #62341
    Marc
    • Topics: 13
    • Replies: 23
    • Posts: 36

    Hi Scott,

    The M1 is really awesome. It handles everything amazingly and quietly. The only drawback is that it can’t be connected to 2 external displays. My 2017 MBP can handle that but quickly finds its limit in certain conditions (e.g: multiple TV charts and live stock market data…).

    PaperSpace.com could be a solution. I will give it a try when I start moving around again. Thanks Mathew.

    Cheers
    Marc

    #62343
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Marc,

    Great to hear about your M1 Mac, version 2 M1X or whatever they call it hopefully will add additional monitor support, if you need to connect multiple monitors though, there are multiple You Tube videos showing how this is possible, I think one guy had 5 monitors. But this link here looks good, allowing up to 3 4K monitors, so could be worth checking out once Parallels or who ever gets the x86 windows to run on the M1 Macs until Delphi brings in ARM compatibility.

    I have just finished the Diploma course run by Wealth Within, so have posted a blog on our Facebook page to see how many would like a Native version for Mac, and so far been a good response, so looking forward to this in the future.

    Good luck getting more than one monitor connected, cheers Scott

    #62345
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Mathew,

    Thanks for you intro to Paperspace, I checked it out, and must admit the only thing I hate about using Virtual machines, you are dependant on internet speed, and having an internet connection. As we predominately do our research outside of market hours etc, just being able to take the laptop no mater where you go and do your backtesting / analysis etc is what I currently love about Optuma, being a local run version, you are utilising the raw speed of the computer and not relying on virtual servers that can really slow down with too much traffic or too many users on the same machine, so I really hope you keep supporting local versions, and do the cloud based as subscription method or whatever you guys come up with.

    That being said, once you guys get over to Graphics library from OpenGL, do you foresee doing the push for native Mac version down the line, or would a cloud based version be of higher priority? Would love to hear your thoughts.

    I have found Optuma to be essential to really allow you to do deep analysis before entering a position, so truly grateful for what it brings, and while I only scratch the surface on it’s capabilities, have built a few scripts that are just awesome. I know in a seperate post ‘ABILITY TO CREATE FOLDERS FOR LAYERS’ is a hot topic on our Facebook page currently too, and fully agree some update interface user friendly changes would only improve the experience.

    Once I get some better number on who would like the Native Mac feature, I provide more feedback, cheers Scott

    #62347
    Mathew
    • Topics: 40
    • Replies: 2,009
    • Posts: 2,049

    Hi Scott

    I really hope you keep supporting local versions and do the cloud-based as subscription method or whatever you guys come up with.

    I still see this as the point of difference with Optuma. Any web-based solution will be to compliment what we have now, not replace it. An ideal scenario is that you have a web portal which allows you to monitor your work on phone, tablet, web, but not necessarily do all the work. Together with Portfolio Management/tracking, that becomes one of the first things we want to achieve as resources permit.

    The other place I see web complimenting is having the server do all the heavy lifting of scanning and then delivering the results to your PC. Similar with the testing engine. eg you design a test and then submit it to the server which is able to test multiple variations (ie optimization) across multiple exchanges /asset classes and you get a report back showing you in which markets (and phases of markets) that idea works best in. For this to be possible, we have to rewrite our scanning and testing so it can run on the PC or Server. That is my main task for the first half of this year.

    once you guys get over to Graphics library from OpenGL, do you foresee doing the push for native Mac version down the line, or would a cloud-based version be of higher priority? Would love to hear your thoughts.

    There are a couple of things moving in parallel:
    1. We will work towards a cloud-based replication of all we can do in Optuma now. But this is a 4-5 year plan as resources allow. This project is always getting pushed to the background and by the middle of this year, we will start having serious conversations about raising debt/equity to get it moving consistently. There needs to be more innovation which allows for better/faster mouse to indicator updates. We’ve looked a 3rd party charting solutions but feel that we are going to have to build our own.

    2. MAC is important, and we see that it would be amazing to have a native version. That all depends on the tools we have supporting it fully and the amount of work we have to do. My main driver is going to be securing the future of Optuma. I have to be very careful that I am not investing in a project which will not give us sufficient ROI to fund the next projects. So the brutal facts here are there there is no native MAC competitor for us, there are solutions which allow Optuma to be run on MAC, so I can not say that doing the work will give us extra revenue which pays for that work. Now as I said, if it comes to spending a couple of days fixing a few things and the compiler supports it, then we are all set, but if we need to dedicate more than a few weeks to it, I would be irresponsible to approve that project.

    The M1 is interesting and we are watching the space carefully. It may be that we see a reason to put higher priority to a native MAC version, but only when the business case makes sense.

    All the best

    Mathew

    1 user thanked author for this post.
    #62367
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Mathew,

    Thanks for your detailed reply, truly appreciate the insight from Optuma.

    Fantastic that the cloud version will compliment of the local version, this will be awesome. Agree for quick viewing this will be great, but using the local for the grunt work when you really want to jump in and do deep analysis so you can use the raw local PC speed.

    1. Understand, and I’m sure this will continue to be a challenge, good luck.

    2. Understand this also, as you said if the numbers are not there, not worth the investment. Once Delphi get this sorted and you move over to Graphic Library, we can only hope there other step is seamless! But as you said, if Parallel or VWWare etc come to the party, then is also a very suitable solution. We can only dream though! 🙂

    Thanks again for being detailed with your feedback, greatly appreciated.

    #62437
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Marc,

    Just did some reading on Crossover, and when I did a search Optuma 1.5 was found, if you have a version of Crossover running on your M1, have you tried to see if Optuma can be installed or run?

    Crossover – Optuma

    Not sure if you have already tried this, but what I have read it could be possible. Would love to hear your feedback.

    Cheers Scott

    #62463
    Scott
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 12
    • Posts: 13

    Hi Marc,

    Back again, looks like Microsoft is about to release a version of ARM Windows 10 that will support the running of x64 bit apps. If this is the case, running Optuma via Parallels or VMware etc is sounding highly likely. There is a bunch of Youtube videos of guys using the insider addition on their Surface Pro X that runs ARM Windows 10.

    Any feedback you can offer once this goes live would be appreciated, and if you get it working, how does the speed compare to your 2017 MacBook Pro.

    Good luck, cheers Scott

    #62537
    Marc
    • Topics: 13
    • Replies: 23
    • Posts: 36

    Hi Scott,

    I haven’t tried to install Optuma on the M1 since I’ve installed CrossOver on the Intel Mac and it does not work. Optuma is not compatible with Crossover it says.

    Pluggable is probably a good solution indeed (but since I need the Intel Mac for Optuma, I can’t operate with the M1 only. May be later I will consider it.

    Cheers
    Marc

    #63637
    Max
    • Topics: 10
    • Replies: 14
    • Posts: 24

    Hi Mathew,
    is there a 32-bit Version of Optuma that would run on the x86 Emulator of the Surface pro X (ARM Windows 10)?
    Best,
    Max

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